Hello all:
After few years, Canadian Airforce has started hiring pilots.
I have just submitted my resume and I may have a good chance
(being an Engineer and holding a valid P.P.L). However I have
a fear of the Army mentality and I am afraid not to be fit for
such an environment. I am afraid to be pushed towards Army admin
as opposed to flying.
Are there any Airforce pilots out there who can tell me a bit about
the life in the Airforce? Is it fun? Is there a lot of bossing around
by the superiors? How is the lifestyle living in a base most of your
life?
Any input is appreciated.
Mehdi Azali (az…@nortel.ca)
On 9 Jul 1996 17:52:52 GMT, Mehdi Azali <az…@nortel.ca> wrote in
rec.aviation.piloting:
>Hello all:
> After few years, Canadian Airforce has started hiring pilots.
> I have just submitted my resume and I may have a good chance
> (being an Engineer and holding a valid P.P.L). However I have
> a fear of the Army mentality and I am afraid not to be fit for
> such an environment. I am afraid to be pushed towards Army admin
> as opposed to flying.
I applied to the military many years ago. At that time, the recruiting
department’s main task was to fill the required positions with the first
people who walked through the door, regardless of other qualifications.
If you didn’t take their first offer, you got stuck on a waiting list. At
the time, I was an accomplished computer programmer, a budding pilot, and
somewhat interested in air traffic control. They didn’t need any of those
skills that week, and offered me a variety of jobs I really didn’t want
for the rest of my life. We settled on "electronics technician", and it
took them two years to call me back with a job offer. By then I had lost
interest, and I turned it down.
> Are there any Airforce pilots out there who can tell me a bit about
> the life in the Airforce? Is it fun? Is there a lot of bossing around
> by the superiors? How is the lifestyle living in a base most of your
> life?
The military can’t seem to make up their mind about people with civilian
pilot licenses. In the past, they’ve been known to take the position that
"civilian pilots already know too much and can’t be trained to fly the
military way".
Most of the pilots I know are frustrated with the lack of hours they get
in the cockpit, although most of them have no problem with the military
lifestyle, per se. One friend of mine was an F-18 pilot (dream job,
right?), and voluntarily transferred to a propeller aircraft because he
"joined the military to fly, not to talk about flying", and thought that
getting 100 hours per year in the F-18 wasn’t worth the hassles.
—
Chris Rasley <http://www.mi.net/dialin/cpr>
Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada. High-Enroute ATC (CZQM), PP-ASEL
CPR <c…@mis.nb.ca> wrote:
>One friend of mine was an F-18 pilot (dream job, right?), and voluntarily
>transferred to a propeller aircraft because he "joined the military to
>fly, not to talk about flying", and thought that getting 100 hours per
>year in the F-18 wasn’t worth the hassles.
bingo. My father, an ex-RCAF CF-104 project/test/instructor pilot,
told me when I was thinking about flying for the military, that being
in the peacetime air force was stupid.
Exactly what is the mission of a peacetime air force? Why, careers,
like any other giant bureaucracy.
My father’s advice, for anyone who wants to fly military, is to either
fly for the US or Israelis, both of whom actually do something with
their a/c.
Think I’m way out in right base? OK, think back to the persian
gulf war.
Remember the canadian F-18s that were CAPing, and went to help
the americans that were having problems with an iraqi gunboat?
The canadian F-18 pilot that rather innovatively fired an
air-to-air missle at the gunboat [which the americans thought
was pretty neat] was publicly severely reprimanded by the
canadian brass.
You want to lay your life on the line for those kinds of
bureaucrats?
Admittedly, I must say that I personally wouldn’t like the
military life very much. I understand that you have to enjoy
being shouted at by stupid people, something I’ve never had
very much stomach for.
Look at how they treated george beurling, a better fighter
pilot than nearly anyone else that has ever flown for the RCAF.
–
#include <std.disclaimer>
ab…@qnx.com (Andrew Boyd) wrote:
Normally Andrew, I find your postings right-on, but I have to take
umbrance with some of your remarks… I AM in the peactime airforce,
and your postings attempt to belittle my contribution to Canada’s
Nationhood
>Exactly what is the mission of a peacetime air force? Why, careers,
>like any other giant bureaucracy.
No me son…. You are a bit off the mark.
Search & Rescue
Fisheries Patrol
Arctic Sovreignty Patrol
Ocean and Teritorial Waters Surveillance (Surface & Sub Surface)
NORAD Support
NATO Support
Immigration Enforcement
Counter Narcotics Operations
Aid to Civil Authority (Forest Fire Support for eg.)
Aid to Civil Power (Remeber OKA?)
SERT support to RCMP Counter Terrorism
PEACE KEEPING, PEACE KEEPING, PEACE KEEPING!
(Bosnia, Somalia, Haiti, Rawanda, Middle East, etc. etc.)
Humanitarian Relief – Hurricane Relief Flights and other WORLD WIDE
missions
>My father’s advice, for anyone who wants to fly military, is to either
>fly for the US or Israelis, both of whom actually do something with
>their a/c.
See above
>Think I’m way out in right base? OK, think back to the persian
>gulf war.
Were you in the Airforce then? Do you believe EVERYTHING you get from
the press or TV?
>Remember the canadian F-18s that were CAPing, and went to help
>the americans that were having problems with an iraqi gunboat?
>The canadian F-18 pilot that rather innovatively fired an
>air-to-air missle at the gunboat [which the americans thought
>was pretty neat] was publicly severely reprimanded by the
>canadian brass.
Hard to judge a situation when you were not actually there in the
aircraft with him. I suspect that there was a considerable amount of
‘tension’ during that Op. Tell us…. what would you have done?
As I recall he was promoted after the war… Doesn’t sound like a
reprimand to me. "Hindsight is always 20/20"
As for the Air Force being full of Beaurocrats… There is no larger
beaurocracy than the US Military… Ask them…
>Admittedly, I must say that I personally wouldn’t like the
>military life very much.
In view of that, and your lack of close observation of the Air Force
of today, what qualifies you to attack the comittment and dedication
of the remaining 13,496 of us that are left in the Air Force? We are
dedicated, are PROUD OF OUR CONTRIBUTION.
>I understand that you have to enjoy
>being shouted at by stupid people, something I’ve never had
>very much stomach for.
Sound like the voice of experience? Been at it for all of my life,
and haven’t run into this yet… I’ll keep my eyes open because it
will probably catch up with me soon. ;-)
>Look at how they treated george beurling, a better fighter
>pilot than nearly anyone else that has ever flown for the RCAF.
You mean ‘Buzz’? Check your work… He was a bit of a ‘loose cannon’
as I recollect.
As for the ‘new’ Air Force… We have a mission, there is a need for
us.
Until you have pulled some poor bugger out a bad situation on SAR,
helped a lost student pilot find his way home just before nightfall,
saved a life by MEDEVAC, fought Forest Fires in the NWT, picked
misguided yachtsman off sinking sailboats in Hurricanes, Evacuated Oil
rigs that have "Blown Out", or deliverd humanitarian assistance, etc.
etc. etc. (All in the Air Force). Please don’t cut us up.
I have done all of the things, and much more, listed in the last para
during my service to Canada and the free world, and I am DAMN PROUD of
it!
Thank you for your time. I hope my experience will add to yours,
your views, I fear are not sufficiently insightful to go unrebutted.
PER ARDUA AD ASTRA!
Sleep well… Your Air Force is Awake.
Canada’s Air Force Home Page - http://www.achq.dnd.ca/
\|/
(. .)
+———————-.o0O–(_)–O0o.————————+
|Mark E. Chapman | http://ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ad392 |
|aka "RotorHead" | "To Fly is Heavenly, To Hover is DIVINE!" |
| "Flying of Course – what the hell other hobby is there?" |
+————————————————————-+
>ab…@qnx.com (Andrew Boyd) wrote:
>Normally Andrew, I find your postings right-on
thanks!
>your postings attempt to belittle my contribution to Canada’s Nationhood
whoah! Calm down, don’t take it so personally. What I said was,
if you want to fly fighters, the canadian air force isn’t the place
to be, at least any more. And I don’t think anyone could possibly
disagree with that.
Chris’s data point is fascinating … that a canadian F-18 pilot
gets 100 hrs/yr. That’s not only sad, that’s dangerous. When my
father was flying jets over in europe, before a demented communist
was elected prime minister of canada, he was flying 80 hrs per *month*.
>>mission of a peacetime air force?
>Search & Rescue
>Fisheries Patrol
<etc>
95% of the above would appear to me to be the job of some
organization like the coast guard, not the military.
You imply that I’m not entitled to an opinion [and you
may be right, I merely pay tens of thousands of dollars
in income tax every year] but I always thought the purpose
of the military was to ensure that the nation remained
soverign; to oppose other, aggressive foreign nation’s
military powers.
However, canada has large oceans to the east and west, an
impassible frozen tundra to the north, and a friendly,
massively powerful neighbour to the south that we couldn’t
possibly oppose if they *did* want to invade.
So, what could the canadian military possibly have to do
with protecting the sovereignty of canada? Why, nothing
at all.
I personally think that canadians:
1) don’t understand the military
2) don’t deserve a military [examples abound]
3) can’t afford a military [$600 billion gov't debt]
I may be wrong, but I’ve said for years that the canadian
military is not a good place to be, and I don’t think it
will be for many years.
>>Look at how [the RCAF] treated george beurling, a better fighter
>>pilot than nearly anyone else that has ever flown for the RCAF.
>You mean ‘Buzz’? Check your work… He was a bit of a ‘loose cannon’
>as I recollect.
yes, if you consider a superb fighter pilot a loose cannon.
I must agree with you, though, the canadian military has no
need for superb fighter pilots. Nor is it likely that we would
have any, if they’re flying 100 hrs/yr.
Hell, I fly two or three times that much, as a civilian
who’s day job isn’t even flying related in the least.
–
#include <std.disclaimer>
In article <4s5kh7$…@qnx.com>, ab…@qnx.com (Andrew Boyd) writes:
[...obviously lots trimmed...]
|>However, canada has large oceans to the east and west, an
|>impassible frozen tundra to the north, and a friendly,
|>massively powerful neighbour to the south that we couldn’t
|>possibly oppose if they *did* want to invade.
We wouldn’t even THINK of invading Canada. It’d ruin the flavor
of the beer.
BTW, does anyone actually *know* what "Montreal Smoked Meat"
really is? How it’s made?
–
Reece R. Pollack
CP-ASMEL-IA — N1707H Piper Arrow III (based GAI)
In article <4s5kh7$…@qnx.com>, ab…@qnx.com (Andrew Boyd) writes:
> I always thought the purpose
>of the military was to ensure that the nation remained
>soverign; to oppose other, aggressive foreign nation’s
>military powers.
The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things as quickly
and efficiently as possible. Everything else is politics.
This is not original from me (sorry, I don’t remember who said it first),
but it reflects my opinion,
Patrick
PatrickFlo <patrick…@aol.com> wrote:
>The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things as quickly
>and efficiently as possible. Everything else is politics.
"Give us the job, and we’ll finish the tools!"
Spin Training. Are both wings stalled in a spin? Do you lose airspeed
in a downwind turn? Why aren’t my landings greasers after 4 hours?
Can I log PIC time when my friend is under the hood?
<and now, time for a friendly "hi" to the feds …>
terrorist cocaine bomb money president columbia drugs explosives
CIA FBI DIA NSA classified conspiracy jim campbell
–
#include <std.disclaimer>
rotor…@fox.nstn.ca wrote:
> Search & Rescue
> Fisheries Patrol
> Arctic Sovreignty Patrol
> Ocean and Teritorial Waters Surveillance (Surface & Sub Surface)……………..
> Until you have pulled some poor bugger out a bad situation on SAR,
> helped a lost student pilot find his way home just before nightfall,
> saved a life by MEDEVAC, fought Forest Fires in the NWT, picked
> misguided yachtsman off sinking sailboats in Hurricanes, Evacuated Oil
> rigs that have "Blown Out", or deliverd humanitarian assistance, etc.
> etc. etc. (All in the Air Force). Please don’t cut us up.
Amen. I’ve spotted (CASARA) with RCAF on a search for missing flyers.
Good people, well trained, pretty relaxed on the formalities.
Cheers, Phil
In article <4s610o$…@scoop.eco.twg.com>, re…@eco.twg.com says…
///
>We wouldn’t even THINK of invading Canada. It’d ruin the flavor
>of the beer.
///–
>Reece R. Pollack
>CP-ASMEL-IA — N1707H Piper Arrow III (based GAI)
Hehehe — at the risk of stirring up everybody’s patriotic fervor,
shouldn’t that read ‘…think of invading Canada AGAIN’. ??
Isn’t that why the British-Canadians retaliated for the burning of their
state house by burning the President’s place down.
Hence, after patching it up, and repainting, we called it thereafter
THE WHITE HOUSE.
brian <grin>
In article <4s3ase$…@news.nstn.ca>, rotor…@fox.nstn.ca writes
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>ab…@qnx.com (Andrew Boyd) wrote:
>Normally Andrew, I find your postings right-on, but I have to take
>umbrance with some of your remarks… I AM in the peactime airforce,
>and your postings attempt to belittle my contribution to Canada’s
>Nationhood
>>Exactly what is the mission of a peacetime air force? Why, careers,
>>like any other giant bureaucracy.
>No me son…. You are a bit off the mark.
>Search & Rescue
>Fisheries Patrol
>Arctic Sovreignty Patrol
>Ocean and Teritorial Waters Surveillance (Surface & Sub Surface)
>NORAD Support
>NATO Support
>Immigration Enforcement
>Counter Narcotics Operations
>Aid to Civil Authority (Forest Fire Support for eg.)
>Aid to Civil Power (Remeber OKA?)
>SERT support to RCMP Counter Terrorism
>PEACE KEEPING, PEACE KEEPING, PEACE KEEPING!
> (Bosnia, Somalia, Haiti, Rawanda, Middle East, etc. etc.)
>Humanitarian Relief – Hurricane Relief Flights and other WORLD WIDE
>missions
>>My father’s advice, for anyone who wants to fly military, is to either
>>fly for the US or Israelis, both of whom actually do something with
>>their a/c.
>See above
>>Think I’m way out in right base? OK, think back to the persian
>>gulf war.
>Were you in the Airforce then? Do you believe EVERYTHING you get from
>the press or TV?
>>Remember the canadian F-18s that were CAPing, and went to help
>>the americans that were having problems with an iraqi gunboat?
>>The canadian F-18 pilot that rather innovatively fired an
>>air-to-air missle at the gunboat [which the americans thought
>>was pretty neat] was publicly severely reprimanded by the
>>canadian brass.
>Hard to judge a situation when you were not actually there in the
>aircraft with him. I suspect that there was a considerable amount of
>’tension’ during that Op. Tell us…. what would you have done?
>As I recall he was promoted after the war… Doesn’t sound like a
>reprimand to me. "Hindsight is always 20/20"
>As for the Air Force being full of Beaurocrats… There is no larger
>beaurocracy than the US Military… Ask them…
>>Admittedly, I must say that I personally wouldn’t like the
>>military life very much.
>In view of that, and your lack of close observation of the Air Force
>of today, what qualifies you to attack the comittment and dedication
>of the remaining 13,496 of us that are left in the Air Force? We are
>dedicated, are PROUD OF OUR CONTRIBUTION.
>>I understand that you have to enjoy
>>being shouted at by stupid people, something I’ve never had
>>very much stomach for.
>Sound like the voice of experience? Been at it for all of my life,
>and haven’t run into this yet… I’ll keep my eyes open because it
>will probably catch up with me soon. ;-)
>>Look at how they treated george beurling, a better fighter
>>pilot than nearly anyone else that has ever flown for the RCAF.
>You mean ‘Buzz’? Check your work… He was a bit of a ‘loose cannon’
>as I recollect.
>As for the ‘new’ Air Force… We have a mission, there is a need for
>us.
>Until you have pulled some poor bugger out a bad situation on SAR,
>helped a lost student pilot find his way home just before nightfall,
>saved a life by MEDEVAC, fought Forest Fires in the NWT, picked
>misguided yachtsman off sinking sailboats in Hurricanes, Evacuated Oil
>rigs that have "Blown Out", or deliverd humanitarian assistance, etc.
>etc. etc. (All in the Air Force). Please don’t cut us up.
>I have done all of the things, and much more, listed in the last para
>during my service to Canada and the free world, and I am DAMN PROUD of
>it!
>Thank you for your time. I hope my experience will add to yours,
>your views, I fear are not sufficiently insightful to go unrebutted.
>PER ARDUA AD ASTRA!
>Sleep well… Your Air Force is Awake.
>Canada’s Air Force Home Page - http://www.achq.dnd.ca/
> \|/
> (. .)
>+———————-.o0O–(_)–O0o.————————+
>|Mark E. Chapman | http://ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ad392 |
>|aka "RotorHead" | "To Fly is Heavenly, To Hover is DIVINE!" |
>| "Flying of Course – what the hell other hobby is there?" |
>+————————————————————-+
Well said, it takes a lot of guts, hard work, dedication and
proffesionalism to do your job. You don’t join the airforce just for a
career, you join because you love flying. As for Andrew Boyds comment of
‘enjoying being shouted at by stupid people,’ well…that’s crap. It may
apply if you are stuck in an office all day but not if you are a flyer!
–
Steve
‘I’d rather pull G than girls!’
In article <4s3ase$…@news.nstn.ca>, rotor…@fox.nstn.ca writes
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>ab…@qnx.com (Andrew Boyd) wrote:
>>Normally Andrew, I find your postings right-on, but I have to take
>>umbrance with some of your remarks… I AM in the peactime airforce,
>>and your postings attempt to belittle my contribution to Canada’s
>>Nationhood
>>>Exactly what is the mission of a peacetime air force? Why, careers,
>>>like any other giant bureaucracy.
>>No me son…. You are a bit off the mark.
>>Search & Rescue
>>Fisheries Patrol
>>Arctic Sovreignty Patrol
>>Ocean and Teritorial Waters Surveillance (Surface & Sub Surface)
>>NORAD Support
>>NATO Support
>>Immigration Enforcement
>>Counter Narcotics Operations
>>Aid to Civil Authority (Forest Fire Support for eg.)
>>Aid to Civil Power (Remeber OKA?)
>>SERT support to RCMP Counter Terrorism
>>PEACE KEEPING, PEACE KEEPING, PEACE KEEPING!
>> (Bosnia, Somalia, Haiti, Rawanda, Middle East, etc. etc.)
>>Humanitarian Relief – Hurricane Relief Flights and other WORLD WIDE
>>missions
SNIP!!
Well Andrew, and anyone else who has been watching the action in the
Saguenay Valley, Still convinced that there is no good in the Air
Force? Where do you think the helicopters (Labradors & Bell 412) come
from? I’ll bet that there are thousands of people who say "thank God
we have an Air Force" Bagotville is after all an Air Force Base, and
they were the first to the rescue, and remain the primary source of
the life saving efforts.
As I said before, and it has never been so true as in La Baie:
-> Sleep well… Your Air Force is Awake. <-
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>Canada’s Air Force Home Page - http://www.achq.dnd.ca/
>> \|/
>> (. .)
>>+———————-.o0O–(_)–O0o.————————+
>>|Mark E. Chapman | http://ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ad392 |
>>|aka "RotorHead" | "To Fly is Heavenly, To Hover is DIVINE!" |
>>| "Flying of Course – what the hell other hobby is there?" |
>>+————————————————————-+
>Well said, it takes a lot of guts, hard work, dedication and
>proffesionalism to do your job. You don’t join the airforce just for a
>career, you join because you love your country.