Stupid question and probably out of the topic but…
I have heard stories about the Bermuda Triangle for ages. Is it really a
real place?
I mean, do airplanes, including commercial ones, avoid flying in that area?
31
Dec
Bermuda Triangle
posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comments (13)
> I mean, do airplanes, including commercial ones, avoid flying in that area?
No. (And ‘no’ to your first question, too.)
—–Joe
In article <3pmcsm$…@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>,
Calvin Lai <c…@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>I have heard stories about the Bermuda Triangle for ages. Is it really a
>real place?
Yes, it’s a real area. Yes, some ships and aircraft have disappeared
there with no reasonable explanation. There was a documentary movie
made on the subject in the 70s which seemed pretty level. The area lies
roughly between Miami and Bermuda.
>I mean, do airplanes, including commercial ones, avoid flying in that area?
No. Planes and ships still traverse the area frequently.
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| When I first moved to New Jersey, I thought that
| people up here did a lot less deer hunting than
George Patterson – | people do in Tennessee, but, after a few years,
| I’ve concluded that they do just as much. It’s
| just that in Tennessee we hunt ‘em with guns and
| here they use automobiles.
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> >I have heard stories about the Bermuda Triangle for ages. Is it really a
> >real place?
> Yes, it’s a real area. Yes, some ships and aircraft have disappeared
> there with no reasonable explanation. There was a documentary movie
> made on the subject in the 70s which seemed pretty level. The area lies
> roughly between Miami and Bermuda.
I don’t have any direct knowledge, but I’ve *heard* that statiscally
speaking, disappearances in this area are no more or less common than any
other areas of open ocean.
Rob
In article <3pmcsm$…@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>,
Calvin Lai <c…@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>Stupid question and probably out of the topic but…
>I have heard stories about the Bermuda Triangle for ages. Is it really a
>real place?
>I mean, do airplanes, including commercial ones, avoid flying in that area?
Yes, it’s a real place. It has the highest rate of unexplained disappearances
in the world.
I saw a reasonable explanation for the disappearances on a documentary on TLC.
Beneath the ocean floor in certain places in the world, there are gas hydrates:
typically methane gas trapped a "cage" of ice.
It’s possible that mud slides expose some of these hydrates to the water,
causing violent bubbling.
This bubbling reduces the density of the water, and can cause ships to sink
(there are cases of gas releases sinking offshore rigs). As the
gas is released into the atmosphere, it becomes ionized and can cause false
readings on compasses and other problems.
This explanation explains the mystery of the bermuda triangle fairly well,
but it doesn’t account for why there aren’t more near misses: ships and planes
that witness the phenomenon from a distance and survive. It also doesn’t
explain why in many distress calls, people sometimes witness other unusual
things like starless skies.
Michael Menagh
michael.men…@canrem.com
men…@ecf.utoronto.ca
i saw the same show on TLC. it said that gasses can rise and form clouds
and if an aircraft flys into the highly explosive cloud with its white hot
exhaust, boom……and the reason that the wreckage is never found is that
as if falls to the bottom of the ocean, the sediment that was stirred up
from when the gas was released settles over the wreckage and covers it
forever…..all of this was just theory but it was a real good program.
Excerpts from netnews.rec.aviation.piloting: 23-May-95 Re: Bermuda
Triangle by Rku…@aol.com
> i saw the same show on TLC. it said that gasses can rise and form clouds
> and if an aircraft flys into the highly explosive cloud with its white hot
> exhaust, boom……and the reason that the wreckage is never found is that
> as if falls to the bottom of the ocean, the sediment that was stirred up
> from when the gas was released settles over the wreckage and covers it
> forever…..all of this was just theory but it was a real good program.
All this would be very interesting if there were _any_ reliable data to
support the claim that more accidents occur in the BT than elsewhere.
That’s simply not the case. More aircraft have disappeared over the
continental United States, "without a trace" than over the waters of the
BT. All this got started by an article in a veterans magazine years ago
about a TBF "Avenger" flight out of Ft Lauderdale. Anyone who’s read
the official accident report, and knows anything at all about aviation,
knows that there was no mystery at all. The flight leader was simply
lost and disoriented. Happens all the time. Both in and out of the BT.
(It’s happened to me flying over the farmland of south Alabama in a
T-28. You get lost. Usually you recover; sometimes you don’t.) His
wingmen (also "in the BT") knew exactly where they were the whole time
and tried to persuade the flight leader to simple head west and they’d
get home. He ignored their sound advice and they followed their leader
to their eventual ditch. It seems that the flight leader was new to Ft
Lauderdale and had previously flown out of Key West. On this flight he
confused some small islands he saw off the east coast of FL with some in
the Keys he’d flown over in the past. He concluded from that that he
was WEST of FL, when he was actually EAST (as his wingmen knew). Logic
told him he was east (and he was even persuaded, briefly, by his wingmen
that this was the case), but it’s hard to deny a visual reference (even
though it was wrong in this case). That one error led inevitably to the
rest of the saga. If you "see" that you’re west of FL when you were
heading east then you’ll probably think your compass is screwed up and
that things look strange, etc., etc. No mystery. Just a lost and
disoriented lead pilot. Tragic, stupid, all the above – but no
mystery.
BTW, I’ve got about 1000 hours flying P-3′s in that area out of
Jacksonville. Believe me, there’s no professional aviator I know of who
gives it a second thought.
—–Joe
yea i know about the TBF flight that got lost and went down somewhere in
the atlantic……i also wouldn’t avoid flying through the BT because of
the stories, hence i said that it was just a theory. i saw the show and
everything the guy said seemed to make sence (i only caught the last part
of the show). as for the statement that more aircraft go down without a
trace over some parts of the US then in the BT, i find that amazing (im
NOT saying that you are wrong, i am just amazed that a lot of planes can
go down over the US and nobody finds them) i also thought that in the
program they said that a large number of boats and aircraft were lost in
the BT……anyways, it was still an interesting program, fact or fiction.
I recall reading a story lately that the author of a book about the
Bermuda triangle which started it all (whose name escapes me but I think
it was Berlin or Berlitz or similar) anyway he basically admitted to
making the whole thing up. Many of the famous disappearances like the
Grumman Avengers in 1945 were hyped up with UFOs thrown in for good
measure. Recent articles in various flying publications have shown that
they merely got lost due compass errors, inexperience, etc.
I remember seeing ads on TV as a kid in the early 70s for the movie –
Alleged radio calls from the crew like "The sky is not right" and "The
ocean is different". Scary to a child but as it turns out fantasy!
Another disappearance in his book which I read many years ago was the
case of a woman pilot who rented a Cessna in Florida with a male
companion (that’s PC for boyfriend) and told the flying school that she
was going to Washington DC. Instead she headed for the Caribean (my
geography of this area is limited but suffice to say she flew straight
through …yes you guessed it, THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE).
According to the book she got lost at night and to cut a long story she
was last seen by quests at a very large and brightly lit hotel on one of
the islands while circling just off shore. ATC had two-way radio coms and
told her she had been sighted by the hotel quests but she (according to
the book) said she couldn’t see any lights whatsoever.
It goes without saying that she flew off and disappeared without a trace.
I think the usual guff about UFOs in the area was thrown in too.
A few years ago I bought a book from American Flying mag about air
crashes, most of them were from the 60s and early 70s and this case was
included.
The reality was she got lost at night time over water, radio coms were
established but were variable and intermittent, no radar contact, etc.
She reported that she was circling over an island but eventually radio
contact was lost due to her low altitude and it was presumed that she
ditched after running out of fuel. A large search was conducted but no
trace was ever found. All very sad and tragic.
However, there were no UFOs, no brightly lit hotels, etc, just a
scared private pilot in over her head but under the circumstances who
wouldn’t be?
Why did he write the book? I am sure it was a No.1 Best seller and as I
recall not a bad read either if you take with a pinch of salt!
The Avengers were found on the ocean floor a couple of years ago. I read
a study (I think from the Skeptical Inquirer) where someone studied the
frequency of shipwrecks and lost planes, and concluded that the "Bermuda
Triangle" area is actually SAFER (statistically) that most other parts of
the oceans (of comparable area).
Warren N. Christman <72163.3…@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>The Avengers were found on the ocean floor a couple of years ago. I read
>a study (I think from the Skeptical Inquirer) where someone studied the
>frequency of shipwrecks and lost planes, and concluded that the "Bermuda
>Triangle" area is actually SAFER (statistically) that most other parts of
>the oceans (of comparable area).
I saw a show about a group of Avengers that were found not long ago.
I think it was discovery channel or something similar. They said that
the group they found weren’t the Avengers in question. Some of the
still recoverable serial numbers didn’t match. This was maybe year or
two ago. Did someone else find the correct Avengers?
In article <3ui17t$…@cassia.itd.uts.edu.au> David Walsh <D.Wa…@UTS.Ed.Au> writes:
>I recall reading a story lately that the author of a book about the
>Bermuda triangle which started it all (whose name escapes me but I think
>it was Berlin or Berlitz or similar) anyway he basically admitted to
>making the whole thing up. Many of the famous disappearances like the
>Grumman Avengers in 1945 were hyped up with UFOs thrown in for good
>measure. Recent articles in various flying publications have shown that
Charles Lindberg (in "Spirit of St Louis" book?), in an appendix, writes of
a 1928+- P.R. flight from Havana back to the US, that over the ocean his
compass began to swing wildly for an hour or so? during which time, in the
hazy visibility, he could not determine his direction of flight. He had
enough fuel on board (little wonder!) that he could ride out this ‘magnetic
storm’ to continue on his way later to Florida & home.
The message here is that when over water and out of visibility of land
(which is a rough but reliable heading indicator), good magneting heading
reliablity is mandatory. No one knows how many aircraft have suffered this
anomaly. On boats, the time factor available (days) allows riding it out.
But on an aircraft, a few hours of magnetic storm could ‘ruin your day’.
Ergo my Bermuda Triangle Hypothesis!
Ang
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In article <3ujipq$j5…@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>, Warren N.
Christman <72163.3…@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
> The Avengers were found on the ocean floor a couple of years ago. I read
> a study (I think from the Skeptical Inquirer) where someone studied the
> frequency of shipwrecks and lost planes, and concluded that the "Bermuda
> Triangle" area is actually SAFER (statistically) that most other parts of
> the oceans (of comparable area).
I read about a classic "Bermuda Triangle" mystery occurrence in Northern
Canada. The plane was an RCAF (Northstar?) with *two* full crews on board,
including (I believe) a navigation instructor who was supposedly doing a
checkout of the duty navigator. The flight (late 1950′s, I think) was from
Resolute Bay to Churchill.
To get from Resolute to Churchill, it’s not very complicated – you take
off, fly straight, wait until you pick up the Churchill beacon, and home
in on it. (The runway at Resolute points due south, directly toward
Churchill.)
How then, one wonders, did they end up on the north coast of Alaska, some
3700 nautical miles off course?
Unfortunately for the Triangle theorists, we know the answer, because the
plane made an emergency landing in Point Barrow. Apparently, the navigator
had confused True North with Magnetic North, not realizing that there was
a magnetic variation of over 90 degrees. He told the captain to do a 90+
degree right turn after takeoff. Not one of the other 9 crewmembers
thought it strange that the sun was behind the port wingtip, even though
it was supposed to be due south. (The backup flight crew might be excused,
because they were playing bridge in the rear of the aircraft throughout
most of the trip.
So I’m a bit skeptical when people tell me it’s impossible for all five
Avenger pilots to have gotten lost simultaneously
BTW, Lawrence Kusche’s book "The Bermuda Triangle Mystery – Solved" puts
most of it in perspective. Many of the most commonly cited
"disappearances" simply never happened at all, and others which, according
to legend, happened in broad daylight in perfect weather conditions turn
out to have coincided with tropical hurricanes.
There were only two occurrences in the Triangle which he could not
convincingly explain, and one of those – the Mary Celeste – was a thousand
miles away from Bermuda. (The other one was the above-mentioned Avenger
flight, and he gave several plausible reasons for what happened to them.
–
WR Lorimer
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"The unexpected doesn’t always happen – but when it does, it happens when you least expect it."
In article <will.lorimer-2007951537120…@c6419.csd.canada.cdev.com> will.lori…@canada.cdev.com (William Lorimer) writes:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>Canada. The plane was an RCAF (Northstar?) with *two* full crews on board,
>including (I believe) a navigation instructor who was supposedly doing a
>checkout of the duty navigator. The flight (late 1950′s, I think) was from
>Resolute Bay to Churchill.
>To get from Resolute to Churchill, it’s not very complicated – you take
>off, fly straight, wait until you pick up the Churchill beacon, and home
>in on it. (The runway at Resolute points due south, directly toward
>Churchill.)
>How then, one wonders, did they end up on the north coast of Alaska, some
>3700 nautical miles off course?
>Unfortunately for the Triangle theorists, we know the answer, because the
>plane made an emergency landing in Point Barrow. Apparently, the navigator
>had confused True North with Magnetic North, not realizing that there was
>a magnetic variation of over 90 degrees. He told the captain to do a 90+
>degree right turn after takeoff. Not one of the other 9 crewmembers
>thought it strange that the sun was behind the port wingtip, even though
>it was supposed to be due south. (The backup flight crew might be excused,
>because they were playing bridge in the rear of the aircraft throughout
>most of the trip.
>So I’m a bit skeptical when people tell me it’s impossible for all five
>Avenger pilots to have gotten lost simultaneously
In Charles Lindberg’s "Spirit of St. Louis, in the appendix log, I think, he
reported a similar incident:
On the way back from a P.R. flight to Havana, Cuba, over the ocean in hazy
conditions, his compas swung wildly for about an hour. Fortunately, his
AMPLE fuel reserve allowed him to muck around until that magnetic storm
subsided then he was on his way again to Florida and home. He commented
somewhere that in the hazy visibility conditions, he could not get any
directional information otherwise.. no land around..
What could be going on is that magnetic storms can upset whiskey compass
accuracy. Such "storms" are common worldwide. They subside in a few
minutes to a few hours. Ships and boats can ride them out. But an aircraft
with narrow fuel margin cannot always do so.
Such storms are due to excess ionospheric electric currents resulting from
solar flares – Figure a transit delay for the ions traversing the 93,000,
000 mile journey from the sun. (Northern lights or aroura bouralis is the
same effect, except near the poles). Suffice to say that there very well
may be a favored route of these ionic currents, when they occur,to the
earth’s surface over certain seas, and it is possible that the Caribbean
and nearby Atlantic may be one of them. Northern Canada could be another,
etc.
Ang.
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