How about "cleared for the practice ILS 6, remain VFR at all times"?
Is that a clearance to practice, or a practice clearance?

        I’ve flown the practice ILS-6 into TEB a few times.  Plotting the
approach fixes onto a terminal chart, I see that TORBY (the LOM) is just
about smack on the edge of the 500 foot ring around Newark, and it’s
virtually impossible that I didn’t bust the Class B on those practice
approaches.  Was I clean?
—
Roy Smith <r…@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."

>: Question:
>:  
>: Do you need to hear the magic words "Cleared into the Class B airspace" or
>: does the fact that you have worked with clearance delivery give you the
>: Class B clearance?

As is the case with ANY clearance or location with which you may not be
familiar:

                  IF IN DOUBT, ASK!!

The controller will tell you.  He might be snippy, but let it go.  At least
you will know.

Jim Wilkinson
FAA Ops Inspector
Long Beach FSDO
310-420-1755
e-mail: james.m.wilkin…@mail.hq.faa.gov
[The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily
those of the writer OR his most patient employer!]

Lionel
Student Pilot

: Hers’s the situation:
:  
: You fly in to a primary airport in a class B airspace.  The airspace at
: that airport is defined as SFC/7000.  Two days later, you get back into the
: plane and plan to depart from that airport VFR.  You contact Clearance
: Delivery.  They give you a squawk code and a departure frequency.  You then
: contact ground and request to taxi.  You get cleared to taxi to the active
: runway.  Once you arrive at the active runway, you switch to the tower and
: they clear you for take-off.  Once in the air, you are told to contact
: departure.  NO ONE HAS SAID "CLEARED INTO THE CLASS B AIRSPACE".
:  
: Question:
:  
: Do you need to hear the magic words "Cleared into the Class B airspace" or
: does the fact that you have worked with clearance delivery give you the
: Class B clearance?

> According to the King tape on airspace, you must request the magic words,
> as soon as "practicable" after takeoff.

Bull.  The magic words are "clearance."  While the FAA has told
controllers
to say "Cleared into the Class Bravo Airspace" to avoid confusion on
flights
in the air, the regs just require a clearance.  When I call clearance
delivery I get
a clearance long before I ever get to the runway.

I don’t believe the "after takeoff" stuff applies to the Class B
airspace,
I think you are remembering the rules for takeoff from sattelite
airports
in Class C and D airspace which have the "contact ATC as soon as
practicable"
wording.

_Ron

-
– Hers’s the situation:
–
– You fly in to a primary airport in a class B airspace.  The airspace
– at that airport is defined as SFC/7000.  Two days later, you get back
– into the plane and plan to depart from that airport VFR.  You contact
– Clearance Delivery.  They give you a squawk code and a departure
– frequency.  You then contact ground and request to taxi.  You get
– cleared to taxi to the active runway.  Once you arrive at the active
– runway, you switch to the tower and they clear you for take-off.
– Once in the air, you are told to contact departure.  NO ONE HAS SAID
– "CLEARED INTO THE CLASS B AIRSPACE".
–
– Question:
–
– Do you need to hear the magic words "Cleared into the Class
– airspace" or does the fact that you have worked with clearance
– delivery give you the Class B clearance?

You were in class B airspace the instant your wheels left the ground. I
would take the explicit clearance you got from clearance delivery and
the clearance to take off as clearance to operate in class B airspace.
You don’t need to here the phrase "Cleared into the Class B airspace" to
have a clearance to be in Class B airspace.

–
Harlo Peterson                Digital Equipment Corporation
 peter…@specxn.enet.dec.com 305 Rockrimmon Blvd South (CXO3-1/E9)
 +1.719.592.5124              Colorado Springs, CO 80919-2398

You are cleared into the airspace with the clearance.  Pilots on IFR
flightplans don’t hear those words, either, but are cleared, nonetheless.

Go ahead; it’s fun.  And easy!

Jim Wilkinson
FAA Ops Inspector
Long Beach FSDO
310-420-1755
e-mail: james.m.wilkin…@mail.hq.faa.gov
[The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily
those of the writer OR his most patient employer!]

>> Question:

>> Do you need to hear the magic words "Cleared into the Class B airspace"
>or
>> does the fact that you have worked with clearance delivery give you the
>> Class B clearance?

Interesting question.  Technically speaking, it seems that you are in
violation of the FAR’s.  But practically speaking, you won’t get busted.  If
pressed, you were "cleared for takeoff", were you not?  There are no magic
words — "Cleared into Class B airspace", although this is a common usage for
VFR aircraft and is published as a phraseology example in the controller’s
handbook.  You must only have a clearance, which may only have an implied
approval into the Class B.  A good example is all the IFR aircraft which are
operating in the Class B.  There were never "cleared into Class B airspace",
but their respective clearances left no doubt that they were going to enter
it.  Along the same lines, then, the takeoff clearance would seem to be the
VFR pilot’s effective clearance to operate in the Class B — but this seems to
be mainly a matter of semantics.

SR – ILM

> Hers’s the situation:

> …  You contact Clearance Delivery.  They give you a squawk code and a
> departure frequency…  Once in the air, you are told to contact
> departure.  NO ONE HAS SAID "CLEARED INTO THE CLASS B AIRSPACE".

> Question:

> Do you need to hear the magic words "Cleared into the Class B airspace"
or
> does the fact that you have worked with clearance delivery give you the
> Class B clearance?

The clearance you received from Clearance Delivery /is/ your clearance
into the Class B.  You don’t need the magic words in this case because you
are already inside the Class B.  You DO need the clearance though
—
*————————————————————————
|    ####   ####   John Freas, ATP/CFII-ME     | Lear 23/24/25
|    #  #         ===  ===  ===  ===  ===  ===  ===  ===  ===  ===  ===  
| #######   ####   john.fr…@worldnet.att.net | Anytime, all the time.
*————————————————————————

Sometimes here they put "cleared out of the class B airspace" in the
part where they would have normally read the clearance limit (you know
these VFR clearances on the ground follow the save CRAFT format as IFR
ones).   Our clearances at dulles typically read…

Navion 5327Kilo is cleared out of the class B airspace via runway
heading, maintain VFR at 1,500, Departure Frequency will be 125.05,
Squawk 0242…

_Ron

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

d…@pipeline.com wrote:
>Hers’s the situation:

>You fly in to a primary airport in a class B airspace.  The airspace at
>that airport is defined as SFC/7000.  Two days later, you get back into the
>plane and plan to depart from that airport VFR.  You contact Clearance
>Delivery.  They give you a squawk code and a departure frequency.  You then
>contact ground and request to taxi.  You get cleared to taxi to the active
>runway.  Once you arrive at the active runway, you switch to the tower and
>they clear you for take-off.  Once in the air, you are told to contact
>departure.  NO ONE HAS SAID "CLEARED INTO THE CLASS B AIRSPACE".

>Question:

>Do you need to hear the magic words "Cleared into the Class B airspace" or
>does the fact that you have worked with clearance delivery give you the
>Class B clearance?

No. Your IN the Class B. You got permission when you went in, you
didn’t leave (’til now). No, you wouldn’t have to ask if you had the
plane trucked in, either. Believe it or not, the FAA isn’t always
lookig for a way to nail you with a violation.

-john