I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this possible
by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
Also, if I cannot go into National, what is the closet airport?
RRKAS…@AOL.COM
26
Feb
Flying to Washington DC
rrkas…@aol.com (RRKASSOC) wrote:
>I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this possible
>by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
Kinda depends on your approach. From where are you coming?
>Also, if I cannot go into National, what is the closet airport?
Also, what is your final destination? Virginia or Maryland? There are
other places to land than National, but you CAN land at National.
-john
rrkas…@aol.com (RRKASSOC) wrote:
>I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this >possible by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
>Also, if I cannot go into National, what is the closet airport?
It’s certainly possible, but I’ve found it both cheaper and faster to go
into College Park, MD (CGS). There is a commuter rail line right across
from the airport that can take you anywhere in the District in 10-20
minutes for a couple of dollars and change.
RRKASSOC wrote:
> I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this possible
> by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
> Also, if I cannot go into National, what is the closet airport?
> RRKAS…@AOL.COM
Try College Park Airport (CGS) Field is 2600′, ample tiedown. It’s
about 17nm on BAL (115.1) VOR 235 radial. Any of the approach freq’s for
BWI, IAD, or DCA (depending upon direction of your arrival) will clear
you into the Class B & give you vectors to CGS. Also, Andrews AFB
(119.3) will clear you & provide vectors if arriving from east at less
than 4000msl. Subway station is 2 blocks from airport, which is inside
the Washington beltway.
t…@corn.org
I’d second the College Park recommendation. No hassles (other than
finding it) and it’s a neat little airport.
Just make sure you take note of the takeoff restrictions. When I was
there several years ago takeoffs (and perhaps landings?) were prohibited
from 10 or 11 p.m. to 7 a.m.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
David Lindenauer wrote:
> rrkas…@aol.com (RRKASSOC) wrote:
> It’s certainly possible, but I’ve found it both cheaper and faster to go
> into College Park, MD (CGS).
rrkas…@aol.com (RRKASSOC) wrote:
>I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this possible
>by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
>Also, if I cannot go into National, what is the closet airport?
Yes it is possible. Whether you want to or not is the real question.
Other posters have suggested College Park which in my opinion is the
best alternative, all things considered. On the other hand, if for no
other reason than to say you’ve done it (flown into National), it
might be worth a go. It is the most convenient airport other than the
cost (which isn’t that bad) and the usual delays in taxing in getting
back out. It is one of the easiest and cheapest major airports to get
in and out of.
Single engine fees at DCAs Signature FSO are:
Landing – $9.26
Parking – $25.30/24hrs
Handling – $20.00 (if you don’t top off)
100LL – $2.57 weekdays $2.07 weekends
Phone – (703)417-3500
If you decide to give it a try, make sure you contact approach early
enough to get the Class B clearance and let them know on your initial
call up that you’re landing DCA. Then from wherever you enter, they’ll
give you the service and sequencing you need to get in. Be prepared to
keep your speed up and make sure you’re familiar with the terrain
around DCA (i.e. Potomac and Anacostia Rivers, restricted airspace,
etc.), as well as the airport layout as they’ll generally land you on
one of the cross runways in favor of 18/36.
Have a safe trip!
Mark
>> I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this
possible by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
Also, if I cannot go into National, what is the closet airport? <<
The fact that you are asking these questions makes me wonder – are you a
private pilot? Not a student but a licensed pilot? Only licensed pilots
are allowed in class B in the D.C. area.
Ofcourse – to enter class b you ask and wait to be allowed entry. Sure
you can go there VFR. There may be a small charge to land there. There
are a bunch of airports near there. Where are you coming from?
–
Tim Moore tmo…@interserf.net
05/24/96 18:25
Broadcasting to you live from
Fredericksburg, Virginia
> rrkas…@aol.com (RRKASSOC) wrote:
> >I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this possible
> >by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
I have flown into DCA twice, VFR both times. Flight following is the
best way because they make the call for you and hand you off to
Wahington approach before you enter the class B. Also, I would suggest
filing a flight plan – because apparently the tower needs one hour
notice or something to that effect prior to entering into the zone –
kinda like a reservation. Another piece of advice is don’t go in around
rush hour – between 5 and 8pm or so. I flew into DCA once at around 6pm
once and the traffic was horrendous! I also flew in on a lazy Saturday
afternoon at around 2pm and there were about 5 airplanes in the class B
airspace. It was great – I was No 1 and cleared to land as soon as I
talked to tower. It is quite a handy airport but the overnight parking
is expensive. You can also land at Dulles but then you have to pay for
a shuttle to get you downtown – last price check was $15 US one way.
Good luck and go for it!
Camille Arsenault
** these opinions are mine – no one else’s**
rrkas…@aol.com (RRKASSOC) wrote:
>I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this possible
>by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
>Also, if I cannot go into National, what is the closet airport?
>RRKAS…@AOL.COM
As other posters have suggested if you have to go to DCA be prepared.
Study the charts and IFR procedures (even if you’re going VFR). Be
prepared to keep your speed up and be familiar with the airport
diagram. DCA has intersecting runways and they use both
simultaneously for takeoffs and landings; expect some sort of "land
and hold short" clearance.
Here is the number for DCA tower; call them and find out when the
worst airline pushes are so that you can avoid the really busy
times:703 557-2861.
JetWayne
In article <4o0vk5$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rrkas…@aol.com (RRKASSOC)
wrote:
> I am thinking of flying my 172 into Washington National, is this possible
> by VFR. How should I enter into the Class B.
> Also, if I cannot go into National, what is the closet airport?
Flying into National is an experience. You had better know the airspace
… and the configuration of the runways. Unless you are flying in in the
middle of the night the controllers there will expect you to perform …
and they might be unforgiving.
The money you might save on ground transportation from DCA will be quickle
eaten up be landing/parking fees.
If you are renting a car, consider Manassas VA. It’s an Excellent airport.
There is a commuter rail station there — but it only has service into DC
during the morning rush.
If you really need public transport, try Dulles.
You might consider Collage Park. It is a small strip under the Class B
and right by a Metro stop.
—
===============================================================================
Keith E. Brandt, MD, WD9GET || I don’t really care if they label me a
Major, Flight Surgeon || Jesus Freak,
Dover AFB, Delaware || ‘Cause there ain’t no disguisin’ the truth!
bra…@ssnet.com ||
http://www.ssnet.com/~brandt || –DC Talk
===============================================================================
Tim Moore wrote:
> The fact that you are asking these questions makes me wonder – are you a
> private pilot? Not a student but a licensed pilot? Only licensed pilots
> are allowed in class B in the D.C. area.
Only certificated pilots are allowed to be pilot in command anywhere.
The restriction on holding a private certificate went out with the old
Group I, Group II, Group III TCA stuff. By the way that whole Part of
the FAR’s marked "National Capital Airports" was vacated in 1989 (except
for the noise requirements) when the FAA turned over control of Dulles
and National to the local airports authority.
In article <31AB1935.1…@sensor.com>
Ron Natalie <r…@sensor.com> writes:
> Tim Moore wrote:
> > The fact that you are asking these questions makes me wonder – are you a
> > private pilot? Not a student but a licensed pilot? Only licensed pilots
> > are allowed in class B in the D.C. area.
> Only certificated pilots are allowed to be pilot in command anywhere.
> The restriction on holding a private certificate went out with the old
> Group I, Group II, Group III TCA stuff. By the way that whole Part of
> the FAR’s marked "National Capital Airports" was vacated in 1989 (except
> for the noise requirements) when the FAA turned over control of Dulles
> and National to the local airports authority.
I believe you are both mistaken on this account. A student pilot may
fly solo into a Class B airspace if he has flight and ground training
for that specific Class B area from an instructor, as evidenced by a
logbook endorsement. Likewise to fly to or from and airport within
Class B airspace, the student must have ground and flight training for
and at the specific airport, as evidenced by a logbook endorsement.
FAR Sec. 61.95 and Sec. 91.131 apply.
In article <31AB1935.1…@sensor.com>
Ron Natalie <r…@sensor.com> writes:
> Tim Moore wrote:
> > The fact that you are asking these questions makes me wonder – are you a
> > private pilot? Not a student but a licensed pilot? Only licensed pilots
> > are allowed in class B in the D.C. area.
> Only certificated pilots are allowed to be pilot in command anywhere.
> The restriction on holding a private certificate went out with the old
> Group I, Group II, Group III TCA stuff. By the way that whole Part of
> the FAR’s marked "National Capital Airports" was vacated in 1989 (except
> for the noise requirements) when the FAA turned over control of Dulles
> and National to the local airports authority.
I believe you are both mistaken on this account. A student pilot may
fly solo into a Class B airspace if he has flight and ground training
for that specific Class B area from an instructor, as evidenced by a
logbook endorsement. Likewise to fly to or from an airport within Class
B airspace, the student must have ground and flight training for and at
the specific airport, as evidenced by a logbook endorsement. FAR Sec.
61.95 and Sec. 91.131 apply.
George Flax wrote:
> > Only certificated pilots are allowed to be pilot in command anywhere.
> > The restriction on holding a private certificate went out with the old
> > Group I, Group II, Group III TCA stuff. By the way that whole Part of
> > the FAR’s marked "National Capital Airports" was vacated in 1989 (except
> > for the noise requirements) when the FAA turned over control of Dulles
> > and National to the local airports authority.
> I believe you are both mistaken on this account. A student pilot may
> fly solo …
Nothing at all disagrees with what I said. A student certfifcate is a
pilot
certificate.
There used to be an outright prohibition from student pilots in Group I
TCA’s (remember those, they required encoding transponders where Group
II’s
didn’t). This was eliminated when the FAA revamped all TCA’s to be
equal
and required encoders everywhere.
Also, there was (still is) a section of the FAR’s covering specifically
Washington National and Dulles airports. Did you know it was a
violation
of the FAR’s to put slugs in the vending machines in these airports?
This
FAR specifically forbid student pilot operations. However, the National
Capital Airport Act of 1989 repealed these rules (at least from being
FAR’s)
with the exception of the sections on noise requirements. The airports
were
given over from the FAA to the Metropolitan Wasington Airports
Authority.
-Ron
George Flax wrote:
> In article <31AB1935.1…@sensor.com>
> Ron Natalie <r…@sensor.com> writes:
> > Tim Moore wrote:
> > > The fact that you are asking these questions makes me wonder – are you a
> > > private pilot? Not a student but a licensed pilot? Only licensed pilots
> > > are allowed in class B in the D.C. area.
> > Only certificated pilots are allowed to be pilot in command anywhere.
If a student flying solo is not Pilot in Command, then who is?
—
Marc Rodstein
Boca Raton, FL
In article <31ADE1B0.5…@sensor.com>, Ron Natalie <r…@sensor.com>
writes:
>This
>FAR specifically forbid student pilot operations. However, the National
>Capital Airport Act of 1989 repealed these rules (at least from being
>FAR’s)
>with the exception of the sections on noise requirements. The airports
>were
>given over from the FAA to the Metropolitan Wasington Airports
>Authority.
>-Ron
As far as student ops go, You can fly solo to BWI or IAD (with the proper
endorsement per FAR 61.95 & 91.131(b)) but student ops are expressly
forbidden at DCA (91.131(b.2) & section D appendix 2 of FAR 91)
Timothy Metzinger
DOD # 1854 ’82 Virago 750
A
> > > Only certificated pilots are allowed to be pilot in command anywhere.
> If a student flying solo is not Pilot in Command, then who is?
> —
A student pilot flying solo IS pilot in command, and better have there
student pilot CERTIFICATE with them…
>> As far as student ops go, You can fly solo to BWI or IAD (with the
proper endorsement per FAR 61.95 & 91.131(b)) but student ops are
expressly forbidden at DCA (91.131(b.2) & section D appendix 2 of FAR
91) <<
I was looking through the AFD because of what Ron had brought up. I was
always under the impression that students were prohibited from solo
flights to DCA, but the afd doesn’t say anything about it – I thought
that it once did. I also thought the vfr sectionals mentioned it in the
class B DCA area, but I can’t find it printed there anymore. Is my sight
going or do they not print it anymore?
–
Tim Moore tmo…@interserf.net
06/03/96 16:14
Using Dvoraks NavCis and Oui 1.5 News Reader
Broadcasting to you live from
Fredericksburg, Virginia
In article <31B30312.5…@sensor.com>, Ron Natalie <r…@sensor.com>
writes:
>> > > Only certificated pilots are allowed to be pilot in command
anywhere.
>> If a student flying solo is not Pilot in Command, then who is?
>> —
>A student pilot flying solo IS pilot in command, and better have there
>student pilot CERTIFICATE with them…
Not quite. A student pilot must carry their student certificate and log
book with them at all times to display necessary endorsements. However, a
student pilot flies at the discretion of their instructor and on their
instructor’s certificate. Therefore, even when the student is flying
solo, the instructor is still "Pilot in Command". The time is logged as
"Solo" not "PIC".
Patrick
PatrickFlo wrote:
> Not quite. A student pilot must carry their student certificate and log
> book with them at all times to display necessary endorsements. However, a
> student pilot flies at the discretion of their instructor and on their
> instructor’s certificate. Therefore, even when the student is flying
> solo, the instructor is still "Pilot in Command". The time is logged as
> "Solo" not "PIC".
I’m sorry, but once again I must stomp on this horrible myth.
Logging has nothing to do with reality, it is goverened by a separte set
of rules. Yes, a student pilot can not log "pilot in command" time.
HOWEVER. An aircraft always has a pilot in command IN the aircraft.
A student pilot soloing IS pilot in command. Read your FARs (Section
61.89)…
(a) A student pilot may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft–
(1) That is carrying a passenger; ….
The student pilot is the "PILOT IN COMMAND"
Now the instructor is liable if he as approved the student for soloing
in error, but that’s not much different than any endorsement he makes in
a student log book. The whole point of having student certificates is
to
allow for this limitted pilot in command authority.
The concept that a student is flying on their instructors ticket is
ludicrous.
-Ron
In article <4p0t2q$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com> patrick…@aol.com (PatrickFlo) writes:
>In article <31B30312.5…@sensor.com>, Ron Natalie <r…@sensor.com>
>writes:
>>A student pilot flying solo IS pilot in command, and better have there
>>student pilot CERTIFICATE with them…
>Not quite. A student pilot must carry their student certificate and log
>book with them at all times to display necessary endorsements. However, a
>student pilot flies at the discretion of their instructor and on their
>instructor’s certificate. Therefore, even when the student is flying
>solo, the instructor is still "Pilot in Command". The time is logged as
>"Solo" not "PIC".
Yet another person confuses *acting* as pilot in command with
*logging* pilot in command time.
Ron, as usual, is correct. A student pilot flying solo is pilot in
command. That student has all the privileges and responsibilities
normally granted to the pilot in command of an airplane, within the
limitations provided by the FAR’s (e.g. 61.87, 61.91), the instructor’s
endorsements, any limitations written on the student certificate
itself, etc.
However, according to 61.51, there are no provisions for a student
pilot to log pilot-in-command flight time. A student pilot flying
solo logs solo time.
—
+=And=the=Master=said=unto=the=silence,="In=the=path=of=our=happiness=shall=+
\ we find the learning for which we have chosen this lifetime." – R. Bach /
+=send=e-mail=to=<mur…@math.uiuc.edu>=====================================+
Okay; having read the FAR’s (you didn’t think I would take your word for
it did you?) I graciously accept correction.
Patrick Flowers
Older and wiser incrementally.
In article <4p27aq$…@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, mur…@nihal.math.uiuc.edu
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
(Michael L. Murphy) writes:
>In article <4p0t2q$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com> patrick…@aol.com
(PatrickFlo)
>writes:
>>In article <31B30312.5…@sensor.com>, Ron Natalie <r…@sensor.com>
>>writes:
>>>A student pilot flying solo IS pilot in command, and better have there
>>>student pilot CERTIFICATE with them…
>>Not quite. A student pilot must carry their student certificate and log
>>book with them at all times to display necessary endorsements. However,
a
>>student pilot flies at the discretion of their instructor and on their
>>instructor’s certificate. Therefore, even when the student is flying
>>solo, the instructor is still "Pilot in Command". The time is logged as
>>"Solo" not "PIC".
>Yet another person confuses *acting* as pilot in command with
>*logging* pilot in command time.
>Ron, as usual, is correct. A student pilot flying solo is pilot in
>command. That student has all the privileges and responsibilities
>normally granted to the pilot in command of an airplane, within the
>limitations provided by the FAR’s (e.g. 61.87, 61.91), the instructor’s
>endorsements, any limitations written on the student certificate
>itself, etc.
>However, according to 61.51, there are no provisions for a student
>pilot to log pilot-in-command flight time. A student pilot flying
>solo logs solo time.