I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
perceived or real… Aerobatic displays do not improve public support
for general aviation nor for the preservation of local airports…
Aerobatic displays do not foster a favorable opinion of general
aviation among the lawmakers of this country – who are exquisitely
sensitive to the mood of the public… And the carnage albeit
infrequent, only reinforces the perception among the insurance
companies that any form of aviation is an underwriting loss just
looking for a place to happen… I simply do not see any benefits to GA
stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
public…
denny
"Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:1121093213.158989.24570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com…
> I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
> aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
> perceived or real… Aerobatic displays do not improve public support
> for general aviation nor for the preservation of local airports…
> Aerobatic displays do not foster a favorable opinion of general
> aviation among the lawmakers of this country – who are exquisitely
> sensitive to the mood of the public… And the carnage albeit
> infrequent, only reinforces the perception among the insurance
> companies that any form of aviation is an underwriting loss just
> looking for a place to happen… I simply do not see any benefits to GA
> stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
> public…
People like to watch it. Pilots like to fly it. We don’t need any more
reductions in freedom.
> I simply do not see any benefits to GA
> stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
> public…
… but there is a benefit to the audience which came out to see it.
Not everything done with GA has to have a benefit to GA as a whole. It
is sufficient that it has a benefit to the participants, not out of line
with the risks to the non-participants.
Jose
—
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
"Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:1121093213.158989.24570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com…
>I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
> aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
> perceived or real… Aerobatic displays do not improve public support
> for general aviation nor for the preservation of local airports…
> Aerobatic displays do not foster a favorable opinion of general
> aviation among the lawmakers of this country – who are exquisitely
> sensitive to the mood of the public… And the carnage albeit
> infrequent, only reinforces the perception among the insurance
> companies that any form of aviation is an underwriting loss just
> looking for a place to happen… I simply do not see any benefits to GA
> stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
> public…
> denny
Does NASCAR racing upset insurance companies?
"Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:1121093213.158989.24570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com…
>I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
> aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
> perceived or real… Aerobatic displays do not improve public support
> for general aviation nor for the preservation of local airports…
> Aerobatic displays do not foster a favorable opinion of general
> aviation among the lawmakers of this country – who are exquisitely
> sensitive to the mood of the public… And the carnage albeit
> infrequent, only reinforces the perception among the insurance
> companies that any form of aviation is an underwriting loss just
> looking for a place to happen… I simply do not see any benefits to GA
> stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
> public…
> denny
You are simply incorrect on several counts and lack understanding on the
others. What you have expressed here amounts to nothing more than your own
personal feelings on the matter.
First of all, GA insurance isn’t predicated on airshow accidents…PERIOD!
Public perception of GA has little to do with air show accidents. The public
isn’t nearly as uneducated and unwashed as you are attempting to make them.
They are more than capable of creating a defining line between air show
related accidents and everyday flying.
This having been said, I can attest that airshow flying, especially low
altitude aerobatics is indeed a very dangerous profession, and that in many
cases, professional demonstration pilots do indeed exceed both their own,
and their airplane’s limitations. There are indeed safety issues, but
banning airshow flying will not happen as you suggest. What is happening is
that professionals are working together to make the venue safer.
I can tell you that as long as there is public interest in low altitude
aerobatic flying, and as long as spectacles like an airshow create a draw
for the public, the venue will remain with us.
To cover how the safety issues are being addressed goes way beyond the
limits of this post. Might I suggest you obtain a copy of "Zero Error
Margin" by Gen Des Barker of the South African Air Force. In this book, Gen
Barker, myself, and a large group of highly experienced professional pilots
who are completely familiar with the issues of flying aerobatics at low
altitude discuss openly the factors you might need to understand a bit more
before you attempt to speak on this issue.
Other than that, blast away with your "feelings" on the matter
Dudley Henriques
In article <1121093213.158989.24…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote:
> looking for a place to happen… I simply do not see any benefits to GA
> stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
> public…
I don’t know, the air shows in my area are enormously popular with the
general public. People turn out in droves for the experience. While
there may not be a large direct benefit to GA, there is a big benefit
for the airport and a resulting indirect benefit for GA.
JKG
"Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:1121093213.158989.24570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com…
>I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
> aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
> perceived or real…
—————————————-reply————————————————-
What next? Outlaw NASCAR ’cause thar ain’t much moonshinin’ theses days
nohow….
From the Redneck Riviera,
Stephen F. Pearce
Foley, Alabama
"Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:1121093213.158989.24570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com…
>I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
> aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
> perceived or real…
Then don’t produce or watch any aerobatic shows.
As someone stated earlier, pilots like to fly it, and people like to watch.
Consider these points in the context of our Constitutional liberties — it
is the *prohibition* that must be compellingly justified, not the activity.
Denny wrote:
>I simply do not see any benefits to GA
> stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
> public…
Then don’t go.
–
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschn…@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
On subject: mose general public airshows come to see the Jet powered cars.
Low level acro acts are risky no doubt, but boy the Masters of Disaster
were cool.
The sad thing is that, how many people thought to themselves…. "that
is an accident waiting to happen"?
I had been thinking that about Franklin’s acts for years (along with
MANY others)
A show of hands: how many higher altitude, loose formation non-violent
acts do people here like to watch?
I like flying farmer cub acts (though also dangerous) Manfred Radius (he
does low level ribbon cuts too) John Mohr (non-violent, but dangerous
none the less).
Now I think of it, all the acts I like are dangerous.
Sorry
Mike
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Denny wrote:
> I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
> aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
> perceived or real… Aerobatic displays do not improve public support
> for general aviation nor for the preservation of local airports…
> Aerobatic displays do not foster a favorable opinion of general
> aviation among the lawmakers of this country – who are exquisitely
> sensitive to the mood of the public… And the carnage albeit
> infrequent, only reinforces the perception among the insurance
> companies that any form of aviation is an underwriting loss just
> looking for a place to happen… I simply do not see any benefits to GA
> stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
> public…
> denny
Recently, Denny <k…@mailblocks.com> posted:
> I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
> aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
> perceived or real…
What activity that displays unusual proficiency and skill *does* have
benefits beyond the entertainment of the viewer? Why not go troll some
NASCAR group about the lack of benefit of that activity to General
Automobile drivers? Why not harrass those watchng the Tour de France about
the lack of benefit to General Bicyclists?
Somehow, I think you just "don’t get it". But, apparently tens of
thousands of others *do* get it, so not to worry.
Neil
"pittss1c" <pitts…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:daubpi$ht6$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On subject: mose general public airshows come to see the Jet powered cars.
> Low level acro acts are risky no doubt, but boy the Masters of Disaster
> were cool.
> The sad thing is that, how many people thought to themselves…. "that is
> an accident waiting to happen"?
> I had been thinking that about Franklin’s acts for years (along with MANY
> others)
> A show of hands: how many higher altitude, loose formation non-violent
> acts do people here like to watch?
> I like flying farmer cub acts (though also dangerous) Manfred Radius (he
> does low level ribbon cuts too) John Mohr (non-violent, but dangerous none
> the less).
> Now I think of it, all the acts I like are dangerous.
> Sorry
> Mike
Believe it or not, I’m very tired of the loud/low/smoky/blaring
music/babbling announcer set of airshow performances. Spare me the
Shockwave or any other flame farting truck. Also, please spare me the pyro
show when the warbirds perform. I’ve seen all of this stuff a hundred
times. That said, I understand that Joe 6 pack, who’s not a pilot and is
only bringing his kids for an afternoon’s entertainment IS looking for loud
airplanes, violent acro, and flame farting trucks. I also understand that
all of these acts are very entertaining the first several times you see ‘em.
I just happen to be privledged enough to go to SnF and Oshkosh almost every
year, where I see these shows several days in a row and get burned out on
these kinds of performances.
I truly enjoy Manfred Radius and other performers who fly less violent and
more aesthetic (?) routines. I remember a Kitfox routine at Oshkosh 10 or
so years ago that was very nice. Muffled engine, smooth routine, no loud
announcer. Also, at the Tico show a bunch of years ago the weather had kept
most of the show planes from making it on Friday, but someone went up in a
Hawker Fury and did a very long, smooth routine with smoke trails from both
wingtips. With the sleeve valve engine, the performance was relatively
quiet, and the smoke trails formed these beautiful and long lasting vortexes
because the air was very still…
My $0.02 worth (which I really need to be saving for avgas these days…)
KB
It was Jimmy Franklin that did the Kitfox routine at OSH.
I watched him practice it at the kitfox factory and I thought it was
one of the best airshows I had ever seen. Mostly because in a Kitfox he
was never more than a 1/4 mile away from me as opposed the just going
by.
Brian C.
As my friend Pete Anderson put it "everyone wants to see the two-headed
fat lady". Polished, skilled aerobatic routines are dull, safe and
boring – bring on the farting jet truck. I guess the few of us that
post of this NG appreciate a smoothly flown, original engine Chipmunk
without a smoke system doing a full routine low-level without a break
for altitude, or the Granley’s glueing two mismatched airplanes like a
Yak–55 and a Yak-18 together. For the rest of the crowd it is World
Wide Wrestling, smoke and flames, make mine double bizarre.
Offhand I can’t remember a formation aerobatic team that hasn’t had a
fatality, Blue Angels, Frecce Tricolore, French Connection,
Snowbirds… etc. so I’m saddened but not surprised.
I had a look at a couple of home videos from the Canada Post
(newspaper) web site. Looked like Franklin was at the top of a steep
climb wing-over to the left when Younkin pulled up and into him from
his rear blind side. There was lots of smoke around so that may have
been a factor.
My condolences to all….
Interesting bunch of responses, but nothing I have read so far induces
me to change my statement… Reread the first sentence of my original
post…
For those who suggest I am operating from lack of information, I have
been ground crew at internationally sanctioned aerobatic
competitions…
cheers … denny
Brian wrote:
> It was Jimmy Franklin that did the Kitfox routine at OSH.
> I watched him practice it at the kitfox factory and I thought it was
> one of the best airshows I had ever seen. Mostly because in a Kitfox he
> was never more than a 1/4 mile away from me as opposed the just going
> by.
> Brian C.
I was at the performer party immediately afterwards.
Jimmy cracked the windshield durring that performance.
I bet he sold a lot of airplanes that day.
"Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:1121182623.520024.230300@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com…
> Interesting bunch of responses, but nothing I have read so far induces
> me to change my statement… Reread the first sentence of my original
> post…
> For those who suggest I am operating from lack of information, I have
> been ground crew at internationally sanctioned aerobatic
> competitions…
> cheers … denny
WOW!!!
Dudley Henriques wrote:
> "Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
> news:1121182623.520024.230300@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com…
>>Interesting bunch of responses, but nothing I have read so far induces
>>me to change my statement… Reread the first sentence of my original
>>post…
>>For those who suggest I am operating from lack of information, I have
>>been ground crew at internationally sanctioned aerobatic
>>competitions…
>>cheers … denny
> WOW!!!
Aerobatics performers are like bull riders. A goddamned stupid thing to
do, serves no useful purpose and you deserve what you get.
"Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:1121093213.158989.24570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com…
>I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
> aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
> perceived or real…
Your opinions are of little interest to the informed world.
Aerobatic displays do not improve public support
> for general aviation nor for the preservation of local airports…
Evidence?
> Aerobatic displays do not foster a favorable opinion of general
> aviation among the lawmakers of this country – who are exquisitely
> sensitive to the mood of the public…
Evidence?
And the carnage albeit
> infrequent, only reinforces the perception among the insurance
> companies that any form of aviation is an underwriting loss just
> looking for a place to happen…
Evidence?
moo
"Newps" <nowh…@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:e5udnf8LiOhcaU7fRVn-iw@bresnan.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> "Denny" <k…@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
>> news:1121182623.520024.230300@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com…
>>>Interesting bunch of responses, but nothing I have read so far induces
>>>me to change my statement… Reread the first sentence of my original
>>>post…
>>>For those who suggest I am operating from lack of information, I have
>>>been ground crew at internationally sanctioned aerobatic
>>>competitions…
>>>cheers … denny
>> WOW!!!
> Aerobatics performers are like bull riders. A goddamned stupid thing to
> do, serves no useful purpose and you deserve what you get.
What a wonderful sentiment. Go fuck yourself!
Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> Aerobatics performers are like bull riders. A goddamned stupid thing to
>> do, serves no useful purpose and you deserve what you get.
> What a wonderful sentiment. Go fuck yourself!
There’s a lot to be said for an articulate man.
–
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschn…@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mortschn…@carolina.rr.com.remove> wrote in message
news:TXSAe.32632$XA.301417@twister.southeast.rr.com…
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>>> Aerobatics performers are like bull riders. A goddamned stupid thing to
>>> do, serves no useful purpose and you deserve what you get.
>> What a wonderful sentiment. Go fuck yourself!
> There’s a lot to be said for an articulate man.
Which one of us are you trying to nail with this gem of wit?
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:17:17 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
<dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in
<xWSAe.21779$eM6.11…@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>::
>Go fuck yourself!
Ah, spoken like the current Vice President of the United States:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3699-2004Jun24.html
Baby Bush’s administration may have a cabinet post for you. :-)
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:21:01 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
<dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in
<1_SAe.21782$eM6.20…@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>::
>"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mortschn…@carolina.rr.com.remove> wrote in message
>news:TXSAe.32632$XA.301417@twister.southeast.rr.com…
>> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>>>> Aerobatics performers are like bull riders. A goddamned stupid thing to
>>>> do, serves no useful purpose and you deserve what you get.
>>> What a wonderful sentiment. Go fuck yourself!
>> There’s a lot to be said for an articulate man.
>Which one of us are you trying to nail with this gem of wit?
Why, the inarticulate one of course. :-)
Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> There’s a lot to be said for an articulate man.
> Which one of us are you trying to nail with this gem of wit?
Not you… I’m on your side. He has his head buried in his ass.
–
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschn…@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE