Ok Gang!
Who has the best rates for renter’s insurance? I need 25,000 hull
liability, and pretty much basic injury and such. And a second question, do
any aircraft insurance companies allow payments like car insurance companies
do? Avemco’s rate is $390/year, which is not bad, but they want it all up
front…which means I could not use the insurance because I couldn’t afford
to fly for a few months! 
Kinda defeats the purpose doesn’t it!!?
Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
–
Patrick Dixon
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
You really dont need the renters insurance. The most you would probably have
to pay is 1000.00 if you smashed it up.
Unless the renters are requiring it.
"W P Dixon" <paddydixs…@bridgenettn.com> wrote in message
news:YkVAe.116$ME6.9961607@news.sisna.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Ok Gang!
Kinda defeats the purpose
> Who has the best rates for renter’s insurance? I need 25,000 hull
> liability, and pretty much basic injury and such. And a second question,
> do any aircraft insurance companies allow payments like car insurance
> companies do? Avemco’s rate is $390/year, which is not bad, but they want
> it all up front…which means I could not use the insurance because I
> couldn’t afford to fly for a few months!
> doesn’t it!!?
> Patrick
> student SPL
> aircraft structural mech
> —
> Patrick Dixon
> student SPL
> aircraft structural mech
Yep the renter requires it for solo.
Patrick
"Aluckyguess" <H…@shaqloses.com> wrote in message
news:shZAe.41560$B_3.10449@fe05.lga…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> You really dont need the renters insurance. The most you would probably
> have to pay is 1000.00 if you smashed it up.
> Unless the renters are requiring it.
I hope they also have owners insurance that covers renting the plane
out. Your renters insurance will ONLY cover a loss if it can be proved
to be your fault. If a tire blows out on the runway and you total the
plane, renters insurance won’t cover any of that because it wasn’t the
renter’s fault. The owner needs to ensure their owner’s policy allows
for rental.
-Robert
Aluckyguess,
> You really dont need the renters insurance. The most you would probably have
> to pay is 1000.00 if you smashed it up.
Could you elaborate how you arrive at that conclusion? Two aspects would be of
interest:
1. How do you put the term "subrogation" in context with your statement?
2. How do you arrive at the number 1000 $, if I can quote you rental agreements
with deductables of 2500 and more left and right?
Thanks!
–
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:07:03 -0400, "TaxSrv" <n3…@comcast.net>
wrote:
>Has that ever happened in the case where an uninsured renter pilot
>with no money (orig poster) will be sued? Why would they incur legal
>fees to do that? It also seems stupid from a business standpoint to
>spread bad "word of mouth," by hassling a pilot who’ll tell other
>pilots/owners which insurance company to avoid like a plague.
If you have no resources, then you can safely go without insurance–if
the FBO will permit. (Mine won’t.) The same is true of course of
medical and automobile insurance, which is why a lot of states have
mandatory insurance, thus doubling the cost for everyone.
Then the question arises as to whether your integrity is so low that
you would put other people in hazard of catastrophic loss because you
fly or drive uninsured.
It’s feasiable, but it ain’t admirable.
– all the best, Dan Ford
email warb…@mailblocks.com (put Cubdriver in subject line)
Warbird’s Forum: http://www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: http://www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: http://www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: http://www.readingproust.com
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 12:52:18 -0400, "TaxSrv" <n3…@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Can
>you answer my question about the ins co’s business sense, for a mere
>$5K minus costs, spreading such ill will in the pilot community over
>the matter?
There’s no ill will. Every pilot knows the score, and a reasonable
pilot would cheer the insurance company on, knowing that the less
money it loses in such cases, the cheaper insurance will be for the
rest of us.
It’s purely a business decision. They might be content with wrecking
your credit rating.
– all the best, Dan Ford
email warb…@mailblocks.com (put Cubdriver in subject line)
Warbird’s Forum: http://www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: http://www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: http://www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: http://www.readingproust.com
> Yep the renter requires it for solo.
This is becoming more and more common.
A flight school on my home field recently started requiring this. They
had wrecked so many airplanes that their insurance very nearly doubled
in cost, with more restrictions and dramatically increased deductibles.
They’re dealing with the issue of increased deductibles by requiring
all the renters AND all the CFI’s to carry insurance. It’s pretty hard
to go after a student pilot for an accident – there’s too much
likelihood the CFI would be blamed for inadequate instruction – so this
way they cover all bases.
I suspect this is the future. For a long time, the prices for renting
airplanes did not keep up with the costs (while the cost of ownership,
obviously, did) to the point where renting airplanes became a very
marginal business AND it became nearly impossible to own an airplane
more cheaply than renting. This is changing – but not in a good way.
Owning isn’t getting any cheaper, but renting is getting more
expensive.
Michael
Hate to burst your bubble .. but if you bust an airplane due to negligence
the insurance company will be expecting you to reimburse them for any
claims they paid on it. (Subrogration)
"Aluckyguess" <H…@shaqloses.com> wrote in message
news:shZAe.41560$B_3.10449@fe05.lga…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> You really dont need the renters insurance. The most you would probably
Kinda defeats the purpose
> have to pay is 1000.00 if you smashed it up.
> Unless the renters are requiring it.
> "W P Dixon" <paddydixs…@bridgenettn.com> wrote in message
> news:YkVAe.116$ME6.9961607@news.sisna.com…
>> Ok Gang!
>> Who has the best rates for renter’s insurance? I need 25,000 hull
>> liability, and pretty much basic injury and such. And a second question,
>> do any aircraft insurance companies allow payments like car insurance
>> companies do? Avemco’s rate is $390/year, which is not bad, but they want
>> it all up front…which means I could not use the insurance because I
>> couldn’t afford to fly for a few months!
>> doesn’t it!!?
>> Patrick
>> student SPL
>> aircraft structural mech
>> —
>> Patrick Dixon
>> student SPL
>> aircraft structural mech
They’re about the same, for the same coverage, so I stick with my
current insurer since I get a 10 percent discount if I pay when
invoiced instead of waiting till the effective date. I pay about $600
for $40K hull insurance and $1 million liability, the most I can get.
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:02:00 -0400, "W P Dixon"
<paddydixs…@bridgenettn.com> wrote:
Kinda defeats the purpose doesn’t it!!?
>Ok Gang!
> Who has the best rates for renter’s insurance? I need 25,000 hull
>liability, and pretty much basic injury and such. And a second question, do
>any aircraft insurance companies allow payments like car insurance companies
>do? Avemco’s rate is $390/year, which is not bad, but they want it all up
>front…which means I could not use the insurance because I couldn’t afford
>to fly for a few months!
>Patrick
>student SPL
>aircraft structural mech
– all the best, Dan Ford
email warb…@mailblocks.com (put Cubdriver in subject line)
Warbird’s Forum: http://www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: http://www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: http://www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: http://www.readingproust.com
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:31:20 -0700, "Aluckyguess" <H…@shaqloses.com>
wrote:
>You really dont need the renters insurance. The most you would probably have
>to pay is 1000.00 if you smashed it up.
Dream on!
When I was in training, I had a prop strike while learning to make
wheelies in the Cub. The instructor’s insurance company thought he was
on the hook for just the $2,000 deductible, but no, that’s not how it
works. You’re responsible for all the damage you do (or in the case,
that your student does), and the FBO’s insurance company will shake
you until your pockets are empty.
He paid (his insurance company paid) for a new prop and an engine
tear-down.
– all the best, Dan Ford
email warb…@mailblocks.com (put Cubdriver in subject line)
Warbird’s Forum: http://www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: http://www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: http://www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: http://www.readingproust.com
"OtisWinslow" <OtisWins…@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hate to burst your bubble .. but if you bust an airplane due to
negligence
> the insurance company will be expecting you to reimburse them for
any
> claims they paid on it. (Subrogration)
Has that ever happened in the case where an uninsured renter pilot
with no money (orig poster) will be sued? Why would they incur legal
fees to do that? It also seems stupid from a business standpoint to
spread bad "word of mouth," by hassling a pilot who’ll tell other
pilots/owners which insurance company to avoid like a plague.
Fred F.
"subrogation" is a term pilots through around to keep each other up at
night. In truth is an extreamly rare situation that is very expensive
for the insurance company. Insurance must be evaluated just as you do
any other financial decision. Its bunk to say you should buy as much
insurance as you can afford. In truth you can never assign all your
liability in life to insurance companies. Therefor, you have to decide
how much you are willing to pay to reduce your liability exposure. If
the guy has little assets there is no reason for him to buy a bunch of
insurance. You have to assume the owner has insurance that covers
himself (and the plane) when renters are flying the airplane because
renters insurance does not provide that coverage.
-Robert
IMAGINE Richard IMAGINE!
Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
"Richard Kaplan" <rkap…@flyimc.com> wrote in message
news:1121267987.c1a2540e23fcd39a48afa82ed612d447@teranews…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "TaxSrv" <n3…@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> Has that ever happened in the case where an uninsured renter pilot
>> with no money (orig poster) will be sued?
> Being low on cash is not the same as having zero assets or zero net worth
> and no anticipated future cashflow source.
> It is hard to imagine someone with no cash, no net worth, no assets, no
> job, and no future career plans taking flying lessons.
> ——————–
> Richard Kaplan
> rkap…@flyimc.com
> http://www.flyimc.com
"> That is a function of where you live. Here in North Carolina, I’ve never
had a
> FBO ask me if I had insurance or to buy insurance. The subject never
> comes up. I don’t know anybody that they’ve (the FBO) asked. I’ve rented
> extensively in South Carolina and I’ve rented in Florida as well; the
> subject never comes up.
> —
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> mschn…@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
This whole thread got me to thinking about mine. I realized I never read
the insurance stuff at my FBO, but new I was covered. I called just now,
and was told that I would be responsible for the deductible (off the top of
her head she couldn’t remember the exactly amount the deductible was, but
thought it was $1000).
Fred
"TaxSrv" <n3…@comcast.net> wrote in message
> Has that ever happened in the case where an uninsured renter pilot
> with no money (orig poster) will be sued?
Being low on cash is not the same as having zero assets or zero net worth
and no anticipated future cashflow source.
It is hard to imagine someone with no cash, no net worth, no assets, no job,
and no future career plans taking flying lessons.
——————–
Richard Kaplan
rkap…@flyimc.com
http://www.flyimc.com
I am limited to sport planes, and have not seen any clubs yet with them.
Flight School I was flying with here at home I was covered under their
policy, just 1000 deductible for myself. But I can’t solo any of their
planes:( If I were a rich fellow I may even think about making my own sport
flying club!!
Patrick
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> That being said, I fly with a local flying club (an option I would suggest
> looking into) because it’s less expensive than an FBO and their insurance
> covers me to fly there planes. I was very careful to check out the
> insurance issues before I joined.
> Chris
Take a look at the coverages, too. For me, I will liekly go with AVEMCO
when it is my time for insurance because my flying club uses them AND
they automatically include CAP operations, which AOPA (AIG) doesn’t.
Since I have plans to fly with CAP later on, that makes sense for me.
I would *NEVER, EVER* fly without insurance. There is waaaayyyy too
much at risk. You think auto insurance companies can go nuts, the
aviation insurance companies have a lot mmore risk and financial burden
when there is an incident or accident (NTSB definitions). I also can’t
afford to lose my house and all of my other assets because I couldn’t
spend a few hundred dollars a years on a plane.
That being said, I fly with a local flying club (an option I would
suggest looking into) because it’s less expensive than an FBO and their
insurance covers me to fly there planes. I was very careful to check
out the insurance issues before I joined.
Chris
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
W P Dixon wrote:
Kinda defeats the purpose
> Ok Gang!
> Who has the best rates for renter’s insurance? I need 25,000 hull
> liability, and pretty much basic injury and such. And a second question,
> do any aircraft insurance companies allow payments like car insurance
> companies do? Avemco’s rate is $390/year, which is not bad, but they
> want it all up front…which means I could not use the insurance because
> I couldn’t afford to fly for a few months!
> doesn’t it!!?
> Patrick
> student SPL
> aircraft structural mech
Cub Driver wrote:
> Then the question arises as to whether your integrity is so low that
> you would put other people in hazard of catastrophic loss because you
> fly or drive uninsured.
> It’s feasiable, but it ain’t admirable.
That is a function of where you live. Here in North Carolina, I’ve never had a
FBO ask me if I had insurance or to buy insurance. The subject never comes up.
I don’t know anybody that they’ve (the FBO) asked. I’ve rented extensively in
South Carolina and I’ve rented in Florida as well; the subject never comes up.
I resent your implication that this is in some way dishonorable.
I don’t carry malpractice insurance either… nor do the majority of nurses I
know. We’re covered by the hospital’s insurance. Or the FBO’s insurance in the
case of flying… less a deductible, of course.
–
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschn…@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
TaxSrv wrote:
> "OtisWinslow" <OtisWins…@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hate to burst your bubble .. but if you bust an airplane due to negligence
>> the insurance company will be expecting you to reimburse them for any
>> claims they paid on it. (Subrogration)
> Has that ever happened in the case where an uninsured renter pilot
> with no money (orig poster) will be sued? Why would they incur legal
> fees to do that? It also seems stupid from a business standpoint to
> spread bad "word of mouth," by hassling a pilot who’ll tell other
> pilots/owners which insurance company to avoid like a plague.
I dinged a C-210 back in the early 1980s and was told at the time that I should
expect to hear from the FBO’s insurance company as they would try to subrogate
their money out of me. Back in those days I didn’t have a pot to piss in. I
owned no real estate and I drove a 1969 Fury I.
As it turned out, nothing happened on any front. No FAA ding, no insurance
problems. They apparently decided to cut their losses as I had nothing they
wanted. What they did want I didn’t have. So sad, too bad.
–
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschn…@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Cub Driver wrote:
> They’re about the same, for the same coverage, so I stick with my
> current insurer since I get a 10 percent discount if I pay when
> invoiced instead of waiting till the effective date. I pay about $600
> for $40K hull insurance and $1 million liability, the most I can get.
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:02:00 -0400, "W P Dixon"
> <paddydixs…@bridgenettn.com> wrote:
>>Ok Gang!
Kinda defeats the purpose
>> Who has the best rates for renter’s insurance? I need 25,000 hull
>>liability, and pretty much basic injury and such. And a second question,
>>do any aircraft insurance companies allow payments like car insurance
>>companies do? Avemco’s rate is $390/year, which is not bad, but they want
>>it all up front…which means I could not use the insurance because I
>>couldn’t afford to fly for a few months!
>>doesn’t it!!?
>>Patrick
>>student SPL
>>aircraft structural mech
> — all the best, Dan Ford
Dan,
If you don’t mind my asking:
Did you go with the company that the Hampton people recommended?
–
Saville
Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html
Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm
Steambending FAQ with photos:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm
Good luck. Once again it’s your money and your risk, but in this litigious
society, you would have to be absolutely crazy to fly a rented plane without
your own renters insurance. Didn’t the senate just pass a new bill to
prevent people declaring bancrupcy to avoid paying their obligations?
- Barney
"TaxSrv" <n3…@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:W-SdnWp_9u8d2kjfRVn-sQ@comcast.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Richard Kaplan" <rkap…@flyimc.com> wrote:
>> A pilot can do lots more than $5K damage to an airframe.
>> Then if you consider potential 3rd party liability, i.e. damage to
> 3rd party
>> person or property, the exposure is dramatically higher.
> So, make it $100,000. Or $6 million — taxi accident on the ramp and
> ensuing fire consumes a bizjet. For someone without big money in the
> bank, and any significant amount of judgment, he’ll just declare
> bankruptcy. He gets to keep his house, its contents, and his car.
> Nothing for the plaintiff but more wasted legal bills to pay.
> Fred F.
"TaxSrv" <n3…@comcast.net> wrote in message
> practically possible, much less establish the facts of the case. Can
> you answer my question about the ins co’s business sense, for a mere
> $5K minus costs, spreading such ill will in the pilot community over
> the matter?
A pilot can do lots more than $5K damage to an airframe.
Then if you consider potential 3rd party liability, i.e. damage to 3rd party
person or property, the exposure is dramatically higher.
——————–
Richard Kaplan
rkap…@flyimc.com
http://www.flyimc.com
"Richard Kaplan" <rkap…@flyimc.com> wrote:
> A pilot can do lots more than $5K damage to an airframe.
> Then if you consider potential 3rd party liability, i.e. damage to
3rd party
> person or property, the exposure is dramatically higher.
So, make it $100,000. Or $6 million — taxi accident on the ramp and
ensuing fire consumes a bizjet. For someone without big money in the
bank, and any significant amount of judgment, he’ll just declare
bankruptcy. He gets to keep his house, its contents, and his car.
Nothing for the plaintiff but more wasted legal bills to pay.
Fred F.
Do you really think the insurance co give a flying sh1t about "bad word of
mouth"? Your’e making a mistake in believing the insurance company have any
morals or scruples. I know of someone who did not have renters insurance,
landed short, took out some runwany end identifier lights, prop strike,
engine teardown and new landing gear. The costs were well north of $40K, and
they came after that person for every penny. Had to sell car and house to
pay it. He thought he was insured. To the OP, look at AOPA. I think I pay
about $200 PA, for the basic deal.
- Barney
"TaxSrv" <n3…@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:44mdnZlo6u3g3EjfRVn-2w@comcast.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Richard Kaplan" wrote:
>> > Has that ever happened in the case where an uninsured renter pilot
>> > with no money (orig poster) will be sued?
>> Being low on cash is not the same as having zero assets or zero net
> worth
>> and no anticipated future cashflow source.
> Agree there, but if someone does $5,000 damage to an airframe, that
> amount won’t go far at all to pursue it to see if collection is even
> practically possible, much less establish the facts of the case. Can
> you answer my question about the ins co’s business sense, for a mere
> $5K minus costs, spreading such ill will in the pilot community over
> the matter?
> Fred F.